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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 33

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always i'm your host exo academian

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much of the world has only recently

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begun to come to grips with the growing

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evidence emerging in the public sphere

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suggesting that sophisticated non-human

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intelligences are apparently in our

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midst buzzing in and around our skies

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both day and night

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this revelation takes the notion that

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aliens might exist out there in the

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great beyond of outer space

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and brings the idea much closer to home

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for some it's simply too close to home

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furthermore many people just aren't

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prepared to deal with the idea that

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extraterrestrial or interdimensional

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beings are not only already here but may

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have indeed been here as long or longer

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than we have

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of course for those of us more aware of

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the extensive body of data regarding the

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ufo phenomenon

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it's clear that not only are these

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intelligences piloting sophisticated

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craft in the skies above our heads

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but they're also interacting directly

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face to face and up close and personal

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with human beings

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we're not speaking simply of these

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others once in a while introducing

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themselves in the broad light of day

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no they some of them anyway are also

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conducting apparently clandestine

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missions to enter people's homes passing

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through solid walls like we might pass

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through a fine morning mist and taking

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people back to their sophisticated craft

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or elsewhere such as some mysterious

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matrix-like reality that defies easy

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categorization based on our current

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understanding of reality

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notice i just said some of them are

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conducting these kinds of covert

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missions often it's important to point

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out without the apparent permission or

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often even knowledge of the people they

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are taking

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i say some of them because truth be told

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not only is sophisticated non-human i.e

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alien intelligence here but it is here

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in the plural and here i'm not referring

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simply to numbers of the same alien

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species

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no i'm referring to different alien

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species altogether

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there are so many in fact that one

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quickly becomes overwhelmed by the sheer

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variety of alien types apparently in our

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midst the short and tall grays

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reptilians mantids human-like species

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such as the so-called nordics and tall

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whites and many more

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and it's not just a variety of alien

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species that can be overwhelming

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the kinds of experiences people have

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with these various others also vary

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some people have decidedly positive even

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spiritually transformative encounters

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with these others from the get-go while

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other people have much more traumatic

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frightening and discombobulating

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experiences

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even the positive encounters are usually

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disorienting in the extreme at first

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blush

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one simply cannot overstate the degree

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of ontological shock that is involved

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here as john mack made clear in his

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research with alien contactees slash

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abductees

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even more complication arises in this

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already complex convoluted discussion

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when one takes into account how many

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people eventually grow to see their

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experiences differently once the initial

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ontological shock has to some degree

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worn off

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even more confusing

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many abductees contactees find that at

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some point during an encounter with

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these others they realize they actually

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sometimes this recognition tracks back

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to early childhood meaning that for some

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these encounters have been ongoing for

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decades often without the individual

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having any conscious memory of this

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contact

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even more discombobulatingly for those

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of us trying to make sense of the

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contact totality

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it becomes clear that some people find

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that they recognize these beings from

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some deeper sense of a larger

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multi-dimensional self that may even

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track over multiple lifetimes

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clearly this is a complicated discussion

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one that arguably cannot be even fully

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addressed without asking as many

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questions about who we truly are as who

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they truly are

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still with all of this complexity in

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mind what can we make of the jungle that

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is the territory of these others this is

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exactly what we'll explore in this the

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33rd episode of the point of convergence

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's podcast some of

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you may note that we've discussed the

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abduction slash contact phenomenon

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before

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the thing is every topic we address here

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on the point of convergence podcast

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tends to beget multiple new questions

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for every tentative answer that is

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offered up

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that's why you'll find me digging back

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into topics we've addressed before on

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the podcast but at a different level or

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from a different angle and that's

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exactly what we'll do today

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i want to step back and see this

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phenomenon the abduction slash contact

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phenomenon from a wider scope and what

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can we learn about it what can we learn

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about the entities people are

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encountering and what can we determine

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regarding the different kinds of

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now when it comes to trying to make

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sense of the different kinds of entities

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people encounter and the different kinds

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of experiences they have

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a good place to start is the free

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experiencer research study

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again while there have been some

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criticisms of this study and we'll go

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into those this is still by far the

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largest study of its kind and it was

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cross-cultural took place over multiple

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years and it's definitely worth paying

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attention to it's still the closest

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thing we have to an exhaustive study

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now for those of you not familiar this

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study is discussed in the book beyond

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ufos the science of consciousness and

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contact with non-human intelligence

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this book was put out by a group called

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free

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foundation for research into

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extraterrestrial and extraordinary

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experiences

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this book is really important and it

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should be part of the library of anyone

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who is endeavoring to learn more about

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this phenomenon and try to make sense of

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now regarding this study i quote from

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the book quote the free experiencer

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research study represents the first

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comprehensive multi-language worldwide

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academic research investigation on

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individuals who have reported to have

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had various forms of contact experience

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with non-human intelligence associated

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with or without a uap

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the vast majority of these individuals

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however have both seen a uap and have

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had perceived contact with non-human

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intelligence

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our research methodology utilized two

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comprehensive quantitative surveys

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totaling 551 questions phase one and two

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and a qualitative survey instrument

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comprised of written responses to 70

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open-ended questions phase three

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unquote

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in just a moment i would like to get to

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some of the conclusions some of the

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surprising conclusions that were drawn

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from this study once the data had been

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collated

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now as i said at the outset there was

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some criticism for this study

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and to be fair often any kind of study

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conducted drawing conclusions about

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anomalous data anomalous events in human

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history will be criticized

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that said there were some fair

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criticisms for this study

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i would just point out that it's almost

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impossible to conduct a perfect study

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some people are going to have criticisms

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no matter what

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that said i think the most

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fair criticisms involved the way the

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data was gathered

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uh people were reached out to through

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facebook groups other kind of social

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media and other kinds of advertisement

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to take part in this study

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now

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the question came up was would some

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people self-select out of this study

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because of the kind of people it reached

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out to in facebook groups and things in

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other words does a certain segment of

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the population not join those kind of

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groups to begin with and therefore would

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that population not be included in the

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data that's possible

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the other criticism was that the

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individuals themselves weren't vetted

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again fair criticism but truth be told

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when you have enough people and this

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involved thousands of people then that

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alone should end up excluding some of

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the outliers or people who are not being

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truthful

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that said let's get to some of the

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now in favor of this study i would just

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like to point out that it truly was a

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cross-cultural study it involved

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populations from around the world

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including people whose primary language

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was not english

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so that really adds strength to the

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conclusions because you can

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draw from that that this isn't just

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people from an american population for

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instance just repeating what they've

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heard elsewhere this really was a

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worldwide study

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now let's get to some of the conclusions

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now one thing that surprised people was

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how positive many people's responses

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were

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overall between 73 to 85 percent

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depending on which question was asked of

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ufo-related contact experiencers

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underwent a profound psychological

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profile change for the positive

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furthermore only 5.3 percent categorized

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their experiences as quote mainly

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negative that was one of the choices

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only 5.3 percent chose that mainly

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negative response

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84

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of the people surveyed do not want their

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contact experiences with non-human

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intelligence to stop

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and only 9.7 percent believe the

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non-human intelligence they are

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interacting with are either bad or

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malevolent very interesting results

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now when it comes to hearing stories

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about people encountering alien beings

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obviously many of this is anecdotal we

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hear about this on social media or

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through our friends or contacts or

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perhaps at a ufo conference

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what's really helpful about this survey

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is that we finally have

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this put together into a large list we

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find out what are the most common types

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experienced around the world

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now number one might surprise many

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people it's an energy being

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55

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of the people surveyed encountered an

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energy being that was number one

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number two again i think surprising to

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many

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human looking being that was 52 percent

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of the those surveyed actually

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encountered a human looking being

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number three is the short gray the three

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00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,519
to four foot tall gray that was 51

289
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:12,959
percent

290
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,279
next up you have the spirit or ghost

291
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,079
form which was 47 percent

292
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:20,399
the tall gray which is five to nine feet

293
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:21,360
tall

294
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:23,040
33

295
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,560
so by the way if you tally those

296
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:26,160
together the short gray and the tall

297
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,839
gray they would be number one but when

298
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,360
you separate them

299
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:30,800
like they are here they come in at

300
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,120
number three for short gray and number

301
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,600
five for the tall grate

302
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,200
after the tall gray we have the

303
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,320
reptilian type at 25 percent

304
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:42,480
finally we have the insectoid slash

305
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,640
mantid type at 21

306
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:46,720
now there are many more included besides

307
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:48,880
these but this gives you the main ones

308
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:50,959
and how often they are encountered by

309
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:53,920
people around the world

310
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:57,120
so just to summarize once again in order

311
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:58,800
in terms of who is encountered most

312
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:00,880
often energy being

313
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:03,200
human looking short gray

314
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,040
spirit or ghost form tall gray reptilian

315
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:09,360
insectoid slash mantid that is the

316
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,959
ordering

317
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,839
now

318
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,160
in terms of how many that is accounting

319
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:16,399
for for instance with the energy being

320
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:19,519
that would include 1 305

321
00:12:24,910 --> 00:12:23,600
experiences human looking 1195

322
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:24,920
short gray

323
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:27,839
1173 and on it goes

324
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:30,399
now what's interesting they also rank

325
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,200
people's responses in terms of positive

326
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:35,600
negative or neutral

327
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:39,760
energy beings came in at 48 positive 7

328
00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:42,480
negative 45 neutral

329
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:44,720
the human looking types came in at 61

330
00:12:49,829 --> 00:12:46,959
percent positive 5

331
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,839
negative 24 neutral so that one was very

332
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:51,839
positive pay attention to that because

333
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,279
we're going to discuss that later that

334
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:54,880
was the human looking

335
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:57,760
next up we have the short gray 29

336
00:13:02,790 --> 00:12:58,800
positive

337
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:02,800
11 negative 59 neutral so again more

338
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:05,279
positive than negative but the highest

339
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:08,000
ranking was the neutral answer

340
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:11,440
spirit ghost form 46 positive 12 percent

341
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:14,240
negative 47 percent neutral

342
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:17,279
tall gray 32 percent positive 12 percent

343
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:19,839
negative 56 percent neutral so again

344
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,480
neutral is the most common answer but

345
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:24,399
positive has a higher ranking than

346
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,519
negative

347
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,000
reptilians now these ones are famous for

348
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:29,600
being quite negative

349
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,079
seen as malevolent by many people

350
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,720
interesting results once again 17

351
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:37,200
positive 23 negative so this is the

352
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,000
first one we have where the negative

353
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,800
outscores the positive but still 60

354
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:44,480
percent said neutral which is

355
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:45,600
interesting

356
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:48,000
finally for the insectoid mounted types

357
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:51,040
30 positive 10 negative

358
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:57,269
now one point i would like to add and

359
00:14:01,829 --> 00:13:59,199
this has been argued by

360
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:01,839
the free researchers themselves

361
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:03,839
that part of the reason why this

362
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:06,800
survey ended up with surprising results

363
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:09,680
is because for a long time in ufology

364
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:12,320
circles the fear aspect seemed to be

365
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:14,079
really trumped up

366
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,680
in other words

367
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:17,440
that tends to get a lot of attention

368
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:19,199
it's just the way our species at our

369
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:21,839
current level of consciousness tends to

370
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,800
respond when you can dial up a fear

371
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,160
dialogue

372
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:28,639
people will respond and so there does

373
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:31,279
seem to be a disproportionate level of

374
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:33,040
fear mongering

375
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,360
in ufology circles historically i think

376
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:37,519
that's true that that's been the case

377
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,360
and a study like the free research

378
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,880
experiencer study

379
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:42,720
finally begins to bring some balance

380
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:44,959
here and if nothing else

381
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:47,040
ufologists who want to paint a negative

382
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:50,639
picture have to make sense of this data

383
00:14:55,509 --> 00:14:53,199
now let's move on to the ontological

384
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:55,519
shock aspect because one really can't

385
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:58,480
discuss this contact slash abduction

386
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:01,120
phenomenon without discussing the

387
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:04,320
ontological shock it is front and center

388
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,880
every single time

389
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,720
now we've discussed the ontological

390
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,560
shock aspect elsewhere but let me

391
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,800
quickly summarize it when people

392
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,440
encounter these beings it is a shocking

393
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,760
encounter because these clearly do not

394
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:20,079
look human they're not animals native to

395
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:22,160
the earth they're clearly intelligent

396
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:24,839
and sophisticated sometimes quite

397
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:27,839
large and this is shocking

398
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,720
our fear and flight response rises to

399
00:15:35,189 --> 00:15:33,360
the surface pretty much every time that

400
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:35,199
even if you're generally not a fearful

401
00:15:41,829 --> 00:15:38,000
person your initial evolutionary

402
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,839
biological response is going to be shock

403
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:43,519
because it's not just about the way they

404
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,240
look and some are quite intimidating but

405
00:15:51,509 --> 00:15:48,720
it's also that our belief system tells

406
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:51,519
us these should not exist

407
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:53,440
most people who have these encounters

408
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:55,920
hadn't even thought about ufos or aliens

409
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,560
beforehand and then suddenly they are in

410
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:00,639
their midst this is the ontological

411
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,399
shock that john mack talked about

412
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,160
i would also add that we have to be

413
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,320
careful not to commit the error of

414
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:10,560
speciesism

415
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:12,880
now i do see this happening people hear

416
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,120
a few stories about one kind of alien

417
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,519
being one species and they draw

418
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,079
conclusions about the entire race

419
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,639
now of course we would cry foul if

420
00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:25,040
people did that about the human race or

421
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:26,959
if people did that even about a specific

422
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:29,600
human population oh americans they're

423
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,680
like this oh japanese people they're

424
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:33,920
like this i've met three of them

425
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,079
even 10 of them even a hundred of them

426
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:38,160
we have to be careful of that and i

427
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:40,560
think we because we want to understand

428
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,720
these beings we can quickly make the

429
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,800
mistake of jumping to conclusions before

430
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,880
we have enough data to support that

431
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:48,720
conclusion

432
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:50,880
as an example in the

433
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,040
data we just discussed there was more

434
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:55,519
positive interactions with some of these

435
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:57,199
species than i think many people would

436
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:58,399
expect

437
00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:00,160
so that suggests that perhaps this

438
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:02,720
negative vibe about some of these groups

439
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:05,280
has circulated in ufology

440
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,039
and it's not really

441
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,880
borne out in the data

442
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:10,559
i would also add that someone like

443
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:12,799
sherry wild who's had an experience with

444
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,120
different kinds of entities she sees the

445
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:18,079
reptilians as misunderstood

446
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:19,360
perhaps they just have different

447
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,640
mannerisms different ways of

448
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:22,160
communicating and that's part of the

449
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:23,039
problem

450
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:24,880
now i'll be the first to admit there are

451
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,199
some people who say the reptilians do

452
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,120
nasty things to people and you can't

453
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:31,600
trust them that is part of the

454
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:34,320
sort of information out there the lore

455
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,559
that's in ufology and yet i just want to

456
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,240
point out that some people have good

457
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:40,960
experiences with these same entities we

458
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,360
have to take all this into consideration

459
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,520
when we're drawing conclusions to make

460
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:47,120
sure we don't draw conclusions

461
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:53,669
now i'd just like to say one thing

462
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:56,400
undoubtedly that free gets right is that

463
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,520
they put experiencers front and center

464
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,760
while we can take pictures and video of

465
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,360
objects in the sky and that is

466
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,760
fascinating undoubtedly and we can even

467
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,160
glean scientific truths perhaps by some

468
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,840
of these videos

469
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:11,919
nevertheless the people who are making

470
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:14,960
contact with the supposed intelligences

471
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:17,840
operating those craft are experiencers

472
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,960
contactees abductees etc

473
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:22,960
free understands we have to listen to

474
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:25,760
these people and when we take an amalgam

475
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:28,000
of their experiences we really can learn

476
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,870
now a comment about terminology if

477
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:36,960
someone tends to refer to themselves as

478
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:39,919
an abductee i will tend to honor that in

479
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:42,559
how i refer to their experience the same

480
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,000
is true of someone who refers to

481
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:47,120
themselves as a contactee or a volunteer

482
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:49,600
which we'll touch on later

483
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:52,880
also importantly these events also do

484
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:55,600
not fall into some neat either or kind

485
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,039
of sorting

486
00:19:01,830 --> 00:18:59,520
sometimes the very people who began with

487
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:01,840
experiences they initially perceived as

488
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,039
frightening traumatizing and dangerous

489
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:07,520
grow to also see these experiences as

490
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,200
profoundly spiritually transformative

491
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:13,520
now whitley strieber is just such a

492
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:15,440
person of course he's perhaps the most

493
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,400
famous abductee in history

494
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,160
he really brought this to the mainstream

495
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:23,440
in the 1980s with his now famous book

496
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,880
communion

497
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:26,960
now he refers to his early abduction

498
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:29,760
experiences as rape that's the word he

499
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:32,400
used and continues to use

500
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:35,200
however he also recognizes that the

501
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,160
fight-or-flight aspect of our minds that

502
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,480
is in many ways an instinctual response

503
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,320
that emerges before

504
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:44,720
higher order rational thought can even

505
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,000
come online

506
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,320
provokes very strongly negative

507
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:50,240
reactions in us

508
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:53,440
now over time strieber has come to see

509
00:19:58,870 --> 00:19:56,880
these experiences as traumatic and yet

510
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:58,880
capable of producing the kind of

511
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:01,200
leverage needed to produce the most

512
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:03,679
powerful spiritual transformations

513
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,799
available to human beings in other words

514
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:09,760
he sees the two as part and parcel

515
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,120
somehow the extreme discomfort is key

516
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:15,679
to the potential power it has

517
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,400
to enact transformation in the human

518
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,799
being

519
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,039
i've also heard strieber talk about the

520
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,760
kind of experience we're discussing here

521
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,919
as a kind of birthing process

522
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,159
and in the same way that when a baby is

523
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,679
born comes into the world and

524
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:33,520
immediately starts crying because it's

525
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:36,720
so discombobulating it's so different

526
00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:38,159
from the experience they were having

527
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:39,520
inside the womb

528
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,840
this is something akin to what happens

529
00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:43,360
to experiencers

530
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,120
their normal reality what has been

531
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,840
familiar up until then suddenly is

532
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:49,919
pulled out from under them like a rug

533
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:52,559
everything suddenly changes in a moment

534
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:53,840
because again

535
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:54,720
these

536
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:56,960
experiences are highly traumatic highly

537
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:58,880
discombobulating there's a lot of

538
00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:00,960
ontological shock because your entire

539
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,960
belief system about the nature of

540
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:04,080
reality

541
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:06,880
changes sometimes in an instant

542
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,240
and yet

543
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,240
strieber's point is that that's exactly

544
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:12,400
what these others are trying to do is to

545
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,799
help us see reality differently and

546
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:16,480
perhaps that's not something that can

547
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:19,600
happen without some degree of trauma

548
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:25,110
now we should also discuss stockholm

549
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:27,919
syndrome because some people will argue

550
00:21:33,909 --> 00:21:31,039
when abductees contactees report

551
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,919
positive experiences it may be a case of

552
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:35,840
stockholm syndrome

553
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,000
is where people identify with their

554
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,039
captors in order to maintain some degree

555
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,520
of sovereignty and agency over their

556
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,600
circumstance in other words when they

557
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,200
have no control

558
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:51,440
they shift their perspective so as to

559
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,400
maintain some semblance of control or at

560
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,640
least the illusion of it

561
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,480
so in other words historically when

562
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,720
people have been taken captive hostages

563
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:03,200
and whatnot they will begin to identify

564
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:05,679
and be sympathetic to the cause of their

565
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:08,480
captors merely to allow themselves to

566
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:11,360
experience some degree of freedom

567
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:12,559
sovereignty

568
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,400
agency again

569
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:16,480
this has been noted in historical

570
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:18,799
situations for human beings

571
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:21,200
many will look at the abduction scenario

572
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:23,120
and say that even when people report

573
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,280
positive encounters perhaps this is

574
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:27,039
what's going on

575
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:29,039
while i think that is part of it and

576
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:30,960
sometimes that may happen

577
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,120
when you do a close reading of the kind

578
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:35,520
of experiences people have there is not

579
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:37,760
a disproportionately positive response

580
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:40,400
based on what actually is described so i

581
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:42,080
think that while we should be aware of

582
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,240
stockholm syndrome it doesn't nearly

583
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:46,799
account for all of the positive feedback

584
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:51,750
another factor that i think we should

585
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,480
consider is when information is lost in

586
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:56,000
translation

587
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:57,919
we all know what it's like to experience

588
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,080
cross-cultural communication that goes

589
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:02,559
awry where various faux pas happen

590
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,320
inadvertently because you don't know

591
00:23:08,870 --> 00:23:07,039
about the culture and its norms when you

592
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:08,880
go there

593
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,919
now

594
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,679
here we're talking about different

595
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,760
species altogether so what i just

596
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:15,919
described was communication that goes

597
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,919
awry within the same species but a

598
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:19,280
different culture

599
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,559
here we're talking about different

600
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,640
species altogether it should not

601
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:24,960
surprise us that sometimes

602
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:27,440
things get lost in translation

603
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:29,360
because this is not just again about

604
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,600
different cultural backgrounds

605
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,520
we're talking about very different

606
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:35,760
biological histories the norms are going

607
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,520
to be very different

608
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,760
communication becomes much more complex

609
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:41,120
because of this

610
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,600
and as the movie arrival did a wonderful

611
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,799
job of

612
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:46,480
describing

613
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,880
sometimes even these beings

614
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:50,480
experience of reality might be

615
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,360
profoundly different time was remarkably

616
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:55,360
different for the

617
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:57,840
alien beings in the movie arrival and

618
00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:00,240
that completely changed the nature of

619
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:01,760
the communication

620
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:04,640
and it took someone with real insight to

621
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:07,200
begin to bridge that gap

622
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:08,880
now i would add that when it comes to

623
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,880
the hybridization program that we hear

624
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,240
so much about

625
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:14,559
some contactees have said that they were

626
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:18,000
told that these hybrids will also serve

627
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:20,559
to bridge that communication gap because

628
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:21,840
they'll have a bit of a shared

629
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:24,240
biological history between the two

630
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,720
different species and this allows for

631
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:28,960
greater communication for that gap to be

632
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,440
bridged finally that is one of the

633
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:33,520
arguments put forward to explain the

634
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,750
another aspect of the contact phenomenon

635
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,000
that is complicated and it only makes

636
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:44,559
this discussion that much more complex

637
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,880
and difficult to parse out

638
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:48,480
is the fact that there seems to be a

639
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,120
co-authoring aspect with many

640
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,000
experiences in these alternate realms

641
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,159
so here i'm not just talking about

642
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:58,960
contact with supposed alien beings

643
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,159
aboard ufo craft i'm also talking about

644
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,799
people who have out of body experiences

645
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:07,200
or shamanic journeys where they

646
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:10,000
encounter beings where the people's

647
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,240
energy that they bring to the experience

648
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:14,720
the priming of the experience really

649
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:16,799
matters what we bring to these

650
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:19,279
experiences seems to have a lot to do

651
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:21,520
with what we end up experiencing

652
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:23,520
so this only makes this conversation

653
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,760
that much more complex but i think we

654
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,600
really do have to make sense of this we

655
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:29,760
have to account for it and when we're

656
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:32,320
collating the data we have to make note

657
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:33,600
of

658
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,000
not that people brought to the

659
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:41,360
experience the degree of positivity etc

660
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:43,919
and we should make note of that and then

661
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:46,240
compare one to another and how much does

662
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,640
that change the nature of the experience

663
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:51,279
because again the co-authoring aspect

664
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:53,279
seems to be key in many of these

665
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:56,159
encounters

666
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:57,919
i also think it's important to remember

667
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:59,919
that certain behaviors

668
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,000
are more likely to encourage contact

669
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:04,559
than others now to be sure some people

670
00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:06,640
have contact experiences that seemingly

671
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:08,960
has nothing to do with what they did

672
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,200
but for those who want to proactively

673
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:13,200
encourage contact there are things you

674
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,559
can do

675
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,640
earlier on we discussed the figure of

676
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:18,960
whitley strieber now he has said that

677
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,200
meditation has been key for him when it

678
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:23,679
comes to contacting these others

679
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,000
and he said that from his perspective

680
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:28,480
when we meditate we become like beacons

681
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:30,559
of light that allow these others to see

682
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,440
us

683
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,520
that our being kind of shines into the

684
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,840
universe and we become apparent to these

685
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:36,960
others

686
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:39,039
of course this is somewhat similar to

687
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:42,080
the ce5 protocols when we project our

688
00:26:47,350 --> 00:26:45,360
location in a loving inviting peaceful

689
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,360
kind of manner out to these others in

690
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,600
the universe so they can hone in on our

691
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:50,799
location

692
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:52,880
these behaviors have been demonstrated

693
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:56,080
to increase the likelihood by far that

694
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,630
furthermore it's important to add that

695
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,400
in addition to these behaviors

696
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,960
increasing the likelihood of contact

697
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:08,159
happening

698
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,520
getting back to what we discussed

699
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,000
earlier with the co-authoring aspect of

700
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:15,120
these encounters it also increases the

701
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:17,440
likelihood that you'll have positive

702
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,320
encounters with positive entities again

703
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,480
this bears out in the data

704
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:24,720
while there are some who look at the ce5

705
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:27,760
protocols or heist human initiated

706
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:30,399
contact events

707
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:31,840
while some will look at that and say

708
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,440
that's dangerous you don't know what you

709
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,799
might attract

710
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:37,279
that assumes that you're not entering in

711
00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:39,919
with a certain kind of priming and again

712
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:42,159
i'm suggesting that the protocols within

713
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:45,360
ce5 or heiss or what whitley strieber is

714
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:48,000
describing in his meditation protocols

715
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:49,200
is about

716
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:52,880
a projection of connectivity of

717
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:55,360
brotherhood sisterhood of cosmic

718
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,679
alliance of peace

719
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:59,440
these are the kind of entities you're

720
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:01,840
encouraging you're calling and that

721
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,760
tends to be who responds that's just

722
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:05,760
what the data tells us

723
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,640
while there are a few and i mean a very

724
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,039
few encounters where people really were

725
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:14,240
following the heist or ce5 protocols

726
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:15,440
while there were a few that were

727
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,440
negative that beings that you didn't

728
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,000
expect showed up the vast majority of

729
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:22,480
the time those encounters are positive

730
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:25,600
again that's just what the data suggests

731
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,480
so this is important to pay attention to

732
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,480
to be cognizant of when it comes to

733
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:32,159
actually engaging in these kind of

734
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:37,510
now in western civilization where

735
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:39,919
everything's been flattened because of

736
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,640
reductionistic materialism or we're told

737
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:44,480
that what we think about things doesn't

738
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,279
matter that doesn't change reality

739
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:49,200
the truth is in these subtle realms

740
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:50,960
which seems to be the realms that many

741
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:53,200
of these encounters with these others

742
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,880
occur in

743
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:56,880
intentionality really does matter in

744
00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:59,520
these subtle realms what we prime the

745
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:01,600
experience with really has a profound

746
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:04,480
effect on the nature of the experience

747
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:07,360
now in a direct analogy we know now that

748
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:09,520
negative thoughts when experienced and

749
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,080
dwelt on for years and years have

750
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:14,240
directly detrimental effects on our

751
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,679
physical health

752
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:17,679
this is somewhat akin to that on a

753
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:23,750
it's important to add that while many

754
00:29:28,149 --> 00:29:25,919
experiences turn out to be positive and

755
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,159
the data bears that out we talked about

756
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:30,559
that in terms of the results from the

757
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:32,240
experience for research study conducted

758
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:33,440
by free

759
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,360
some people do indeed have negative

760
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:37,679
experiences and negative entities do

761
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:39,840
exist i want to make that clear and

762
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:41,520
sometimes when i say negative what we

763
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,159
really mean is immature self-serving

764
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:47,120
entities do exist we should be aware of

765
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:48,480
that

766
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,720
and we certainly don't want to blame or

767
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,480
shame anyone who has a negative

768
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:54,720
experience it's not their fault and

769
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:56,240
these do happen

770
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,320
and sometimes there's really nothing you

771
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,559
can do about it you very much are a

772
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,799
victim in some of these circumstances

773
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:05,360
and we should be aware of that cognizant

774
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:07,679
of that and respond to people in like

775
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,310
now if you've been around these circles

776
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:14,240
for long enough you'll encounter groups

777
00:30:19,269 --> 00:30:16,640
of people who are convinced that all

778
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,279
encounters with the others are negative

779
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,440
that all of the others are malevolent

780
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,200
that they have negative intentions

781
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:24,720
towards us

782
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:26,720
they want to take over our civilization

783
00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:29,520
destroy us turn us into zombie humans

784
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:31,279
many different arguments but they're all

785
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,480
negative

786
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,399
on the flip side you have some people

787
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,320
who are convinced groups of people in

788
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,159
fact that are convinced that all of this

789
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,480
is love and light that there can be no

790
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:42,640
such thing as a non-human intelligent

791
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:45,440
entity that doesn't mean you well they

792
00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:47,440
assume that they're all positive all

793
00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:50,320
loving all here to help us grow neither

794
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,799
one of these positions makes sense to me

795
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,480
and both of them sound more like

796
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,960
religious dogma from my point of view

797
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:58,240
because again it's about people

798
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:01,120
projecting onto the world even if it's a

799
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:02,799
world beyond what we've been accustomed

800
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:05,919
to they're still projecting their

801
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,559
preferred reality onto that rather than

802
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:10,159
actually paying attention to what the

803
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:15,590
it's also important to remember that

804
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:17,279
even snakes and spiders that are

805
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:19,519
completely non-venomous

806
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:22,159
scare us half to death because of that

807
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:24,559
same fight flight pre-rational

808
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,080
instinctive reaction i discussed earlier

809
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,080
a few years ago a movie called district

810
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,960
9 came out and it had aliens in it

811
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:35,039
and the show runners wanted to generate

812
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:37,840
empathy from the audience towards these

813
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:39,919
aliens and what they found in their

814
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:41,919
research is that they had to make these

815
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:44,720
aliens look somewhat humanoid to even

816
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,679
generate empathy amongst the audience

817
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:49,679
if they look too much like spiders for

818
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:51,600
instance the majority of the audience

819
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:53,840
wouldn't even be able to generate that

820
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:56,559
empathetic feeling regardless of the

821
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:58,640
actions of these others

822
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:00,960
and even worse and more telling in light

823
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:03,200
of today's conversation they wouldn't

824
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:05,519
even be aware of that irrational

825
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,559
thinking

826
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:08,640
they would be just completely devoid of

827
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,200
compassion for another's plight

828
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:13,679
again we might ask here who are the

829
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:15,840
scary evil aliens

830
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:20,630
based on what we just discussed i would

831
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:23,120
say that at least potentially it often

832
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:25,120
can be

833
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:27,519
and on that note we've come to the close

834
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,200
of another edition of the point of

835
00:32:33,509 --> 00:32:31,039
convergence podcast

836
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:33,519
as always let's keep this conversation

837
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:35,679
going and growing

838
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:37,919
but until next time friends from deep

839
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:39,679
within the blue ridge mountains of north